Currently I no longer train under an official organization because I am done like dinner with dojo politics, high fees and inflexible schedules. And I use fists and heavy punches also score a point but it needs to have shattered your opponents movement and its only legal if delivered in the body. The reason I enrolled for Taekwondo lesson is because I want it to be my new hobby and also for exercise, not for self-defense, honestly. You must believe, quoted by Master Uguay.from Kung fu panda. Get their damn asses whooped. If you have no real sparring skills, i.e. ITF emphasizes on cycle of breathing while going through motions and emphasis on height and sequential movement. Ive been in more street fights and bar brawls in my life than is probably recommended, I have dabbled in Western Style Boxing, I have had a lot of training in Modern Army Combatives through years in the Infantry, Ive trained in MMA, I spent my formative years in Collegiate (and some freestyle) wrestling, and have also spent some time studying Krav Maga. No pads no head gear. Thats mainly why I had to clarify between WTF and ITF for the article as you are very correct, ITF is vastly superior to WTF in almost every conceivable way. Because this is the rule of wtf Taekwondo. For practitioners of the Korean martial art of Taekwondo (WT/KKW, ITF or other independent groups - all are welcome) The other generalizations relating to WTF/ITF comparisons are also full of crap. I really dont see this as something people need to blow a gasket over. Why is American taekwondo Association called a joke by some? - narkive The only people who I have seen are great fighters in dojos are the ones who have a natural gift. There must be a sepparate session with the 12 yo below kids. Oklet me clarifyI dont see a lot of GOOD hand work in TKD. ATA however, if often referred to as a cash cow, totally ineffective of standing anywhere close to ITF or WTF. Being older and not so Im shape anymore TKD is perfect for me. karate is by FAR the lowest form of defense. Stay well friend and stay away from microwavable TKD ;). My old dojang is now called Black Belt World. Yikes! I did that search because I saw humiliatingly hilarious youtube video of a blackbelt showing off his lack of balance and bad form. Geez, everyone has the same lame excuse. Or few hundred / month. That takes years to learn to switch over and only comes through excessive purposeful training. unfortunatly schools like ATA and commercialized the discipline make it more like a 1 hour daycare with kicks lol. Seems a strange measurement, but if it floats your boat then ok. As for US and RussiansI double dog GUARANTEE you they do not use WTF TKD to train their elite forces. Ive studied TKD (WTF) in a few clubs here in Finland and I have to say Im shocked of the quality and motives in US and it seems to be same in Canada. The article specifies WTF TKD. I cant blame you for your ignorance.Sigh I blame your mother. And to make it worse, you appear to know very little about the history of Taekwon-Do or Shotokan for that matter. Whats the difference between Poomsae/Tul/Hyung? Simply she or he will not move up a rank. We did a lot of really hard pad-work, full contact sparring, footwork drills, very intense conditioning- it was very tough. I love the fact that your son just joined Taekwon-do ;-) hope you signed him up to ITF though. You mean that thing where someone will cock their leg up fir a Side Kick or Round Kick, then hop towards you, doing weak jabby kicks as they come in? Lets face it, there is an enormous chasm between regurgitating techniques and forms and rule-guided sparring, and actually using what you know for real world combat. I simply cant put bubble wrap everywhere. if a TKD practitioner knows what hes doing, then the kicks wont be limiting. Refer to page 28 for legal, branding . Beyond the scope of the ignorant view you have based solely upon the USs already bastardized version of Taekwondo, there are schools in Korea, Japan, and even in multiple countries in Europe, that teach the true Taekwondo art as it was meant to be taught. I little criticism is not going to kill anyone. Dont piss off a junior belt that has spent any time in another fighting art unless you want to discover just how low TKD is on the martial arts food chain. Its a sport! Similarly while I train at a at a Gracie lineage Jiujitsu school there are never any punches, kicks, or elbows thrown. And we are a top school in our area at every tournament. Basically taekwondo came from a korean game taekyon wherein they tie their hands and spar with their feet like what the sport part of TKD does. Im not here to preach my experience, and some other people may enjoy the kicking (like I said, to each his own). Hey Im gonna kick the crap out of you but first lets get on our knees. Much of that statement is also true, but not all. What is the difference between the International Taekwondo Federation I liked it and it certainly is interesting ( so thank youreally ), but it is not a scientific study at all. Koreans take the bulk of the TKD medals, with (according to my biased sources, a statistical majority of those going to South Korea). My favorites: Anderson Silva (70% of KOs by kicking to the head)Serkan Yilmaz, Denis Silver, Alexander Volkov etc so many of them ( google those names . Volume A: Philosophy and Traditions. Anyway, thanks for the input. Just learning how go write. By the way, he lives in Canada now. It illustrates your ignorance on the topic and shows you never learned respect or control, either from martial arts, fishing or anything else. I totally agree. Seriously i have watched so many taekwondo fighters got taken to the ground right after their first attempt to do a high kick, spinning or even flying kick ( seriously). No joke. and other martial arts that has been commercialized and neutered (including BJJ). And that comes from someone with over 20 years of WTF TKD. ATA Publications, Inc. Fighting Style: Which fighting style do you prefer? no to showing off ,but ive kicked 3rd dan karate holder in the face when he challenged me in street fight and probably he fell and werent able to stand . We dont slack off we train.Every day when I go I am always excited to go.We have a few really little kids that start crying in the middle of a sparring match. On da streetz, folks dont gouge eyes, tear off ears and snap in illegal finger locks while ur passing that Gracie BJJ side mount. It probably takes me around another year to earn my black belt in Taekwondo at the rate I'm going (which I know three years for a black belt in TWD is fairly fast but not outrageous). Like I said, TKD works great for kids. Believe it or not, there are better ways to stay fit that what a dojo can provide. I love kickboxing, kobujutsu, karate and krav maga also enjoyed taijutsu, not practicing currently. [17][18]. By reading this comprehensive blog, you now have a fair bit of knowledge about which style suits you the most. I was already a black belt when i went there but was offered a 3rd dan there (as soon as I learned their Curriculum at my own pace) but never got it (too expensive!) been doing martial arts for over 25 years and i agree that tkd hand techniques are not as developed as others. During the next 60 years, major changes occurred in the army version of this art. Real TKD would more closely resemble ITF style. Our sparring is designed for point scoring hence no kicks below the belt however we punch a great deal including backfists. Even though called itf there are again many different discplines of this style some good some not so. It is not reality, though. use their legs for kicking the ball, like any other sports. As for how my son thinks about the article, hes not really all that interested in what Dad writes! You want to defend yourself then at least learn the basics or join a Krav class or something. Lee was promoted to Grand Master in 1990, he created an informal council of "his most loyal and trusted Masters and advisors. The internet must be awesome for guys like you. As a longtime karate practitioner, I spent considerable time getting punches right. Regardless, TKD is our base and it serves us well. It just has aspects that are well, as I said, useless. I learned a lot, and found studying a soft art was a great complement to hard style. There are bachelors and masters degrees in TaeKwonDo available from all of the top universities in South Korea. To earn this title the 6th degree must undergo a rigorous application and testing process lasting one year. Moving forward here is the underlying issue you either missed or chose to ignore, it is not the style, its the school and more importantly the instructor not the art that makes or breaks any martial art. ", 1st Degree Black Belt Recommended (half red and half black in appearance) - "The dawn of a new day. But nonetheless, I have one and it is valid. 5 Reasons TAEKWONDO is Useless - Dysfunctional Parrot hilarious. Mostly ITF TKD, but BJJ and some other stuff as well. At our organisation not only are we taught the tradtional parts of the discpline we are also taught self defence and other facets for street work whcih is far removed from sparring. I do agree that it is a great activity for kids and am glad I had that experience as a child. No polyester uniforms with logos. I will have to disagree with you. Whoops. I sparred and trained with him a couple of times. By the way what are you training? Everyone has their own take on it which is why so many are in it. Especially here in the states, its hard to find a TKD school that does not focus on the gym contract, belt factory mentality. I have sparred and beaten countless Kung Fu guys, Judo guys, BJJ guys, MMA guys etc. Connecting with one of these haymakers would indeed be spectacular. Either way, if someone likes WTF TKD, then all the power to them. If you dont know the meaning of the word you should look it up. However the abandoned garage on the edge of town with 4, 30 year old hardcore dudes in it, no sign, no ad, no website, just training, thats the respectable form of TaeKwonDo that should be more common. The Korean GM had it inside him, it was part of him and he executed in such a way that left the onlooker astounded. Lee; Grand Master William Clark; Grand Master Robert Allemier, White Belt (Songahm 1) - "Pure and without the knowledge of Songahm Taekwondo. Tang Soo Do as practiced by Chuck Norris) that predated the creation of of Taekwondo as South Koreas national martial art. Well, unlike those Karate guys that decided to hound you about defending their honor, as a third degree black belt with 12 years of training under his belt, I wont really say anything in defense of my art. Maybe, we should have been nice and just asked them to leave, but we usually had fun with them if you know what I mean ;). Dancing costs 15/hour!!!!! how ever you can still train in the military style of taekwondo as i do in australia. I doesnt take more a than a street fighter with some experience to deal with taekwondo. Bobo would be a pushover, but I swear that Ronald McDonald guy is ex-special forces. I assume he valued the effectiveness. Yet I see value in it. See, I can be nice! Thats an excuse people like you will need in order to ignore people like me lest your house of cards come falling down. You have to learn a different art such as karate to learn how to close distance and wrestling or jits or judo to take someone down. Thanks for the point of view, but perhaps running your post through spell check or an english translation site might be a good first move next time. ATA International. not being allowed to punch to the face whilst sparring, ha ha what a joke! We used to do that I appreciate your writing style and look forward to future posts. Do you really, deep down in your heart honestly think 4 guys hitting a bag is the end of the study??? 1 month later I pulled him out. Thats why mma is so good btw Muay Thai is good if you want to do irreversible damage to youre leg I dont even think its a real style because there is only one move shin kick. Can I win in the UFC? [9], One steps are a short combination of blocks, strikes and kicks that serve as a precursor to free sparring. TKD was originally basic Shotokan Karate which was infused with cultural Korean elements (emphasis on high, jumping, flashy kicks) so that people do not mistake it for Karate. I was taught by some ROK soldiers and they provided a different format. Thats why we dont put our kids in Krav Maga classes taught by hardass Israeli ex-paratroopers. But what if its not in the rules of the game? So hard to tell these days. As for being a Champion of Freedomwell um. Hope this clear up speakers no gooder for me. . The Kukkiwon will endorse certain ITF schools, because fundamentally the South Koreans enjoy the opportunity to face off vs. the North Koreans. More than anything else this all depends on practitioner. No. our sensei however is a respectable man and those flaws youve mentioned above; we were also aware of those and if the instructor is also realistic he would also be aware and try to sway from most off those. Martial art styles are just branding. Thank you, have a good day! Moreover, TKD for self-defense is far different from what people see in Olympic matches where punches are used frequently. The federation rivalries are more related to pissing contests between those at the top who wished to exercise control in the interest of profitability more than anything. I have no preference in what art a person takes .A good program is a good program. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcAfClb-f4g. Haha prolly not =P What are your thoughts on Aikido? when reading through your article , i was waiting to reach the part which said my style was better than yours. If someone really had a notion to take it, I would recommend ITF every time. Tkd has awesome foot work if learned properly. Bunny hopping is the modern evolution of the sport. some of the moves being uncomfortably and certainly cringy to do. Look, I think its safe to say were not going to convince each other of anything. But I do have one question Im hoping I can get your answer. I practice Shou Shu, and we train to destroy shit. At any rate, I will state my original post again. Thus, the techniques are locked down, and those are limited in numbers. I was one of those ten year old black belts. Then you seem to miss the point of WTF. Thanks for the responses everyone. I am a Software Engineer by profession do not have much time to participate in regular public events. Songahm Taekwondo is the style of martial arts practiced at ATA affiliated schools. For that reason, I would not call it a McDojo. Interesting thing about Ninjutsu is that while there are basics to get down, you actually make it your own, based on your physiology. My ten year old son in in it! Reddit, Inc. 2023. If someone walks up to you, out of the blue, and asks: What did you say say to me?, the correct answer is a knee to the balls, an elbow smash to the nose, and a punch to the throat. Otherwise my own son would not be in TKD. I am horrified about Karate being included in the Olympics soon, it already looks like a bunny-hopping game of tag and I fear it's gonna get worse over time. Before 2015, there was only one Grand Master at a time; however, after the promotion of multiple Grand Masters the title "Presiding Grand Master" [25] is now used to distinguish the Grand Master chosen from the others to be in charge of the ATA. Unlike a children's program, adult programs focus on high-intensity fitness and real self-defense that applies in today's world. I just cant see how anyone got a government grant to measure the kicks of various martial arts. WTF TKD is as low on the MA food chain as it gets regardless of the dojang. However, if youre a black belt, you can kick to the head with full power. Deciding to leave had nothingNOTHING to do with having been in a bad dojo or trained with bad people. Founded in the year 1969 by Master Haeng Ung Lee also referred to as the Eternal Grand Master. most of the techniques that I have learned,i used for real and it worked! You are using an out of date browser. In WTF, since kicking is an integral part, it often draws criticism of being ineffective in a real-life situation. My advice is take your son out of whatever wtf school hes in and put him in an itf dojang and u will quickly conciete. Please pass the keyboard to Jane. Not crazy about the promotion structure, which seems drawn out to enhance income to the school and to the organization, but that is really separate from the quality of the curriculum. Whats wrong with that? (Not down the points, you scored with each answer, and you will have your result). I've been enrolled in two of their classes for about the same amount of time (Taekwondo and Krav Maga) and I've gotten a lot better in both, although I'm still nowhere near where I want to be but that isn't really the instructor's fault. Plus it was providing inferior fitness compared to what I can achieve now. 11. You want to learn to defend yourself take some Krav Maga classes. ), I strongly doubt it is any different. Rather than pointing out the flaws of other martial arts, I look for the good. ITF is indeed better and much closer to Shotokan Karate ( of which I am a 15 year veteran ) from which it was derived. Obviously we learn forms and techniques and all of that. Given a choice I would always recommend ITF over WTF any day. I love this thread because it was interesting to read. Still I agree there are some schools out there in the world that ought to be ashamed of themselves, but there are actually some good schools out there and I still feel the instructor or practitioner is the one who either succeeds or fails in his/her art via his training. In all fairness, my son just passed his first TKD test tonight! I have studied several brands of TKD, Tang Soo Do and Hapkido. The West for the most part has lost the original intent of the martial arts almost universally regardless of style. I can tell you right now TKD is not useless, I use TKD all day every day. For practitioners of the Korean martial art of Taekwondo (WT/KKW, ITF or other independent groups - all Advertisement Coins 0 coins Premium Powerups Explore Gaming This is so stupid. :wink2: I think i learned how to counter that as a green belt. Good news, nobody asked you to agree with my opinion. All rights reserved. Where I came from, that sort of lack of control was met with an equal amount of incentive to get your shit together, asap. I really liked these few articles about why this was useless and maybe not so useless. I suppose everyone has limitations dont they? Like Jhoon Rhee Taekwondo, ATA Taekwondo has its roots in traditional Taekwondo. You bet the kids love it. Many have come to the same conclusion at a high level, but you could say that for almost all large organizations and there are many good ATA instructors and practitioners. The sport aspect is fun, but a warrior it does not make. The difference from one to the other was vast. KA- Korean Karate, Tang-Sudo. I cannot comment on wtf. The Instructors also emphasize much on competition training because it brings good name to their club as well as the student profile is boosted up. ATA_Branding-Guidelines_2020 - Yumpu I am 72 years old, married, 4 sons, 10 grandsons. In fact, TaeKwondo is so dreadful it makes karate look like magic. I studied bixing, shotokan and wadoryu karate as a youth and now itf taekwondo . Ya ive always really liked the uniforms. I dont fight anymore though so I dont care. But if what he does brings him peace and happiness then his life was not wasted. Sounds like a pretty stupid code to me that borders on cult mentality. He used Karate more than anyone else in the UFC when everyone was saying karate and TKD will never work in MMA and was a champion, and started when he was a kid. I was just in my dobak pants and a tee shirt (so I didnt have my belt on) and my instructor decided not to tell him my rank He didnt stand a chance. Isnt that what I said? The method for doing so is fairly simple once learned, unfortunately there are few with the patience to actually learn it. For the most part, WTF TKD gets a pass because they do have a solid organizational head and curriculum. and practitioners (often former ATA students) calling the organization--and the Songahm style of TKD--a scam or sometimes even a cult. Uhmmit clearly depends on what Taekwondo school you go to, and we do learn to punch. Neat uniforms, bamboo sticks, Steven Segal and apparently the third Dr. Who knew how to use itthats about all I know! Between my brother and sisters we have 4 black belts and a lot of experiences to share. I left because I grew up and realized martial arts are an inferior form of physical fitness compared to so many other better options. However, if you think taking someone like me is really as easy as you make it out to be, youll get hurt pretty badly. The more you learn, the more you realize how much is left to learn. Taekwondo as a dojo and a sport is no different to this belief. this stupid and yes there are some things that are right ,but hes not focusing on the art instead hes focusing on the uniform and lying about the cost of a black belt. Founded in 1966 by General Choi Hong Hi, ITF is based upon the styles developed by General Choi. I agree to Dysfunctional Parrot, no single art is completely perfect. I am a red belt (one step below black belt) in WTF Taekwondo myself and am working towards becoming an instructor. But some local schools teach the traditional styles of taekwondo which is actually worth something. This isnt a case of anyone losing their minds over someones opinion about Taekwon-Do so please dont lose your mind when people point out that your opinion is incorrect and is based in complete ignorance. Similarly, there is a minimum period of a year between earning a 7th degree and the Senior Master title, earning an 8th degree and the Chief Master title, and earning a 9th degree and the Grand Master title. Going to either a local or national TaeKwonDo Sparring Tournament is much more exciting for me now. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Copyright 2022 Dysfunctional Parrot Productions. The rest of you street fighters, learn from your elders! UFC proved TKD was a joke. Im not saying its for me either but I cannot judge something I know nothing about, neither can you. Though the primary objective of all these three styles stems from Hosin Sul i.e. I think it is a little unnerving to have 10 year old black belts. Am I prepared to handle business in every day life? After 15 years of hard training Im not a fighter either. You come off as bitter, undisciplined and uneducated. (I spose I would understand if some of his friends are in it also and he wants to spend time with them) I am not asking this out of spite or anything like that. For example, many karate federations would rather fight about insignificant details before ever compromising. This helps the trainee instructors become qualified taekwondo instructors and earn the ATA title of Certified Instructor.[9]. At the top levels though, TKD can maintain itself as quite a respectful martial art. See where Im going here? Ive saved one woman several years ago from what was a rape-in-progress, using Taekwondo. Please have a clue before you post. [28], Founded during the fall of 1990, The World Traditional Taekwondo Union (WTTU) is a division of Songahm Taekwondo. They teach me how to kick from different angles and give great leg flexibility and strength. Very true, WTF style is highly focused on competition over practicality. In ATA, hand and foot techniques are used, and judges emphasize the effectiveness of each technique. and my currant school is actually really a mix (but we call ourselves WTF) and my instructor has trained in several things including judo, karate, a little bit of jujutsu, and wrestling(if you count that) and yet he still likes tkd after over 25 years if it. We dont have anything like this in here. Reddit, Inc. 2023. She is practicing every day and her instructor is big on respectfor herself, parents, and other adults. I've been going to an ATA location for almost 2 years now. The rules of the old-school Olympic Taekwondo were different and they imbibed the traditional spirit before the implementation of electronic Hogu. Any dojang where knockouts to the head are encouraged deserve to go out of business. learn standard boxing techniques and grappling. Plastic uniform that you think,however its up to you,and I reached black belt at the age of 13(Taekwondo) and yes Ive seen many 10 years old black belts they are black belts because they have been doing since very little,it depens on the academy,thank you. My dream job is video game design like animations, learning how to write code for a video game, using model and texture programs. Its paying more attention of developing legs more than any other martial arts. We do usually prefur them because an individual can put a lot more power into a kick than a punch, but we do still do a lot with our hands (and your considered stupid if you dont block) we Also do a LOT of self defense(against knives, baseball bats, kicks, punches Etc), throws, and break-falls. ITF is just a version of Shotokan karate anyway and if my son wants to learn that Ill teach him myself. But I have been to some useless dojans(tkd version of a dojo) i have tried ITF, plain WTF, a little blue cottage, (I always discard my current belt and just start over when I switch schools. Founder Haeng Ung Lee received his first degree black belt in 1954,[6] and began teaching taekwondo to Korean army members. They think Taekwondo students only know how to kick. You clearly have trained with the wrong people !!!! Taekwondo teaches you elegance, and if thats what you wanna learn, to each his own. I love fighting 15 year Karate guys, but thats because my dojang doesnt limit itself to Tae Kwon Do. then take three deep breaths because if you dont clean up the language your next post will be your last. I have become somewhat of a heretic in the TKD circles around here do to this, and yet classes were always full when I was teaching. #5 Your point on the gear being to protect you from random flailing kicks is just silly and shows a lack of understanding. Wow! I have studied the art of Taekwondo for over 15 years and I must say some of what you say may be true for some schools but not for all. Im friends with a TKD black belt who fought in the EFC. But may just give up the idea after read this absurd article. Its largely about the business and not the quality of students with most schools. Yes. Show me a day care that can teach you to do that. If I could've found a better school I'd probably still be doing it today. Answer: Taekwondo (WTF). What is created is a myth of a true Korean martial arts with deep roots in the culture. Whether a particular McDojang will teach them is quite another matter. When I was in the ATA, our schools (southern CA) used to train differently (in terms of more contact) compared to traditional ATA schools (in fact, we were often penalized or reprimanded for what some judges thought were excessive contact in tournaments). As always, I try to respond to my faithful devotees. Leave the sports version of any technique and search for the killer moves. im not sure where you can learn this style in america though. 4) Yes it is my site. Everyone has an opinion, Ultimately the only one that counts is that of the person who has to believe that they can actually take care of business with what they have learned. Why is forbidding hand techniques to the head wrong? This is the very image of a McDojo. Stemming from Korea Taekwondo Association formed in 1959, Taekwondo currently has three major bodies, i.e. Yes it is remarkably easy to get a black belt these days (as long as you have money and time), but that is not real Taekwondo. I assure youbroken noses and a whole host of other injuries are par for the courseregardless of federation. Just because ur dojo didnt teach hand defense doesnt mean that they all are like that. If you dont notice it, it probably just means youre the source or havent been around long enough. My WTF school easily disinterests more students than it retains solely because of the complete attention to basics and proper technique. Theres good stuff in every martial art, TKD included. What is true for one man isnt true for the other. My son is in TKD, two of my sisters are black belts, and I can say unequivocally that WTF TKD is NOT the place to go for fist work.
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